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Post by sassybees on Apr 14, 2006 7:37:57 GMT 10
Hello everyone A new problam has arisen with the "New fish" Q tanked for over 3 weeks and all was well. Then I noticed one with stringy white poop.......LATE last night I then noticed one doing a shimmy...... almost wagging it body. From reading I am assuming this is a parasite. She eats fine, swims normally then stops and wags herself, like she is annoyed with something. I cant see anything visable on her, her tail is also sligjhtly clamped so something is up. 1. If this is a parasite, what do I treat with that I can buiy here in Melbourne? 2. Is it contagious? I havent isolated as yet because of a small problem I have........as you know my husband works for an aquaroum distributor and they were going to kill a few bettas because of ratty tails (Some idiot put them in the same bag) My darling one decided that as they were not sick he would bring them home. AGGGGGGGGHHHHH 3 of them!!! So I had to find 3 seperate compartments for the Q stage. LOL I have little Q tabks everywhere hooked to air stones etc.... Tanks have now invaded my bedroom and kitchen bench!!! I really dont feel like eating a litre of icecream this early in the morning to provide yet another Q tank and I only brought a 2 litre coke last night and thats not fibished!!! I have no ther containers!!!! and its good friday at 7.30 am. so shops are not open. Some friendly duppy people advice would be good right now
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Post by sammigold on Apr 14, 2006 11:26:37 GMT 10
is this the same fish? that is doing white poos and "wagging"?
Has she recently been treated for anything else? I know you had a couple of probs there?
I would be inclined to try a little laxative treatment... 1 teaspoon of Epsom salts per 40 litres... you only need to do this once... you can treat the whole tank without hurting anyone it will just act as a laxative and everyone will be pooing (so a good gravel clean will be in order a couple of days later!)...if she has a digestive disorder this could help her to relax and expel any probs...
you only need to do it the once... the epsom salts will work within 24hrs...
It may also be an abortive type issue... if it is a girl she may have been having a spontaneous abortion.. (I think that is what they call it)
That is all I can suggest at the moment.... Can I ask you how hard you keep the water? as in GH and KH? HTH
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Post by Bumblebee on Apr 14, 2006 13:38:55 GMT 10
I have had a similar problem in tanks with bad columnaris outbreaks, some will get tail-rot and external problems, some will get internal problems, white poop, bloating and occasionally dropsy. I would go with the epsom salys and tetracyclene treatment if you have it as a precaution against the bacteria. even soak food in some if you have enough available. I would also reduce feeding to a minimum and keep an eye on water quality. Hope you beat this one.
Just had a female go through something similar after a mild nitrite poisoning, she was ok after being moved to a clean aged tank and recovered within 3 weeks.
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Post by sassybees on Apr 15, 2006 10:03:22 GMT 10
I know it isnt the water..Nitrate 15, Nitrite zero, ammonia zero, PH 7 I have NO idea how to check for the hardness. The test kit I have you honestl need a science degree to work out the instructions!!! Girls are no better The antibiotics , tetracyclene dont seem to be helping...Im off to get some epsom salts. All the supermarkets where shut yesterday. Changing the subject.... I had a real treat yesterday...... I was taken to my husbands work (With a special clearance) to look at the 3000 tanks and 110 ponds of gold and tropical fish. The place is HUGE..it was an awesome experience.... I was like...I want , I want , I want!!! LOLI saw the most amazing Discus and Ghost knives from baby to full adult.....just plain awesome.... I was also whisked into the managers office, he wanted to meet me.. There could be a possibilty of a job offer for me coming up there later in the year!!!! So I saw the weird, good, bad ugly and sensational fish Ive ever seen. I had a fantastic time, then I was taken to lunch by my darling.... then I got horribly lost coming home LOL and spent an hour trying to get us back in the right direction. Oh my hubby organised this day using my car ( 4WD)as he brought a 5 foot tank and stand from a guy at work, filter...gravel... for $80 Anyway must go and do some housework and tank clean. Thanks ladies for all your help
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Post by sammigold on Apr 15, 2006 11:06:35 GMT 10
if you have a hardness test.... if it is GH test by Aquarium Pharamaceuticals (which are the ones I mainly see in most aquariums around Melb)...you just put the water in to the line then add 1 drop the water should go yellowy-orangey colour add one drop at a time (keep count) until the water changes to a greeny hue...(its pretty subtle) Aim for it taking at least 12 drops...mine sits at between 13-15 drops.... Guppies love hard water and will thrive... if the water is too soft that can contribute to stress for the guppies and then illnesses such as columnaris etc can take hold.
KH is similar but water goes blue after first drop and then has to turn pale orangey... it should sit around 3-4 drops.... KH helps to keep your ph stable so you dont get any lethal drops in ph... I hope that Helps.... Melbourne water is naturally fairly soft so you will probably find that your GH naturally sits around 6-7 out of the tap.... so you will need to add conditioning crystals to up the gh...
I really believe that water hardness is one of the key elements to keeping guppys successfully....HTH
Its sounds like you had a great time at the fish place.... I am a little jealous there :-)
Good Luck.
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Post by Bumblebee on Apr 15, 2006 14:54:50 GMT 10
wow, sounds like a great experience. Dont suppose hubby knows if the ghost knives were being bred there (or anywhere for that matter) as there are a few rumors going around the net that some company is breeding them here in Aus. Hope you can get a job there. that would be amazing.
I find a good way of keeping PH and KH nice and high is to use shell-grit (birdfeed grade). Cichlid keepers may know a little more about how to use it correctly though. I usually just throw in a few handfuls and replace it when it disappears.
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Post by sassybees on Apr 15, 2006 23:12:03 GMT 10
Hubby said its not where he works... ive heard its a private breeder Have you tried to breed them? Imagine cornering that market! Update on the girls........They are in the sick tank with Epsom salts. I am trying something different I watched them for a couple of hours and it really appeared that something was annoying them...They would be fine, then shimmie like crazy. I explained this to Mike and he said he had one that did that and it was gill fluke. So I thought Id try that med as the antibiotic wasnt doing anything. Well they have stopped the simmie, well 80% of it in about 5 hours of treatment. Its a vicious circle....... they still have the columnaris by the looks of things or a relapse, one is losing her tail and the other has a patch (cooked look) BUT the shimmie has almost stopped and they were hungry when I fed a tiny amount. I have them in a cool tank as suggested. They really need to be treated for the columnaris as well.... OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH what to do! Its weird this is only affecting my females (M and F in seperate tanks) but all water changes are done at the same time, same mixture warley tri start and conditioner Came from the same place at the same time. All were Q tanked and went into cycled tanks, yet only the females have this sickness. Poor darlings. I hate seeing sick fish. The males are doing great full of the flirts ( with anything) and riding the current and playing in the titanic ship in the tank. They eat like the havent been fed in years. I will beat this
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Post by Bumblebee on Apr 16, 2006 14:55:40 GMT 10
I have a similar problem with a single tank. It recieves the same water-changes at the same time as all my other tanks but I cannot keep a guppy alive in it. No water parameters are out. It has some baby BN's an odessa barb and a few upside down cats that are doing fine but any guppy that goes in begins gasping at the surface and gets columnaris days later. I have no clue as to what makes this a 'tank of death' when others are just fine. this tank was used not long ago as a grow-out tank with no problems. Makes me wonder what we are misssing.
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Post by sammigold on Apr 16, 2006 22:22:43 GMT 10
Bumblebee could it be an oxygen issue - Are they planted tanks or plastic plants - I know this might sound really silly but if they are real plants maybe they are taking up some of the oxygen in the water leaving the gups gasping.... or another way out idea...if plastic plants maybe because you baby b/n in there they are producing plenty of waste and therefore a rise in nitrates which have no real plants to absorb them which may irritate the gups skin and cause stress.... Maybe an extra air stone to get some water movement happening and some more oxygenation of the water.
Sassybees; when you cleaned the tank after your infestation maybe there was some residue left of whatever it was you used to clean the tank (i am assuming bleach) It may just be the slightest amount but enough to irritate the skin of gups therefore causing fluke-like symptoms such as flicking on gravel/plants and shimmieing.... I know that with my discus they are very sensitive to any irritant in the water even if I leave the w/c a day or two late sometimes they start to get irritated due to just slight rises in nitrate or hardness of water... but they are fine after a nice large water change... just a suggestion.... PS. I used to think the tank I keep my gups in now was a "tank of death" for gups.... but things have changed and I am happy to say that I now have very happy gups in this tank.... but I am still to scared to put a B/N in there as the last 3 I have put in there died with no external symptoms or any warning... they just died. :-( So no B/Ns for this tank LOL
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Post by sassybees on Apr 17, 2006 8:46:36 GMT 10
First of all, I have racked my brainss WHAT is a B/N? ?? Bristlenose? Wel;l Ive lost 4 of those, they just dont like me. They do really well in the q tank and as soon as I transfer them to whatever tank I want them in...they croak a week after! I am erradicating causes as people suggest them.....I know its not the water prams..... did them again last night along with a big water change 30%. Its not airation...It has the big sponge filter with a power head on it plus a bubbler. I have fake plants...After the cammalanus Im not keen on real plants as thats more than likely where the cyclopes came from..Paranoia, I know. Its not bleach residue.....This tank never had infected gups or anything in it..... I do have a thought on this I used my goldfish to cycle this tank........I have been told these are massive disease carriers. There again the goldies cycled my males tank too and they are fine. I know Im grasping at straws, but I have to find what is in this tank of death. The boys tank is the one thats been stripped, bleached, ripped down as thats the one the cammallanus worms were in.... Now I have another question... Bettas.... As you know Frank brought 3 home as they were going to destroy them because of ripped tails. I must say they are awesome fish. I had a spare tank That I had some white clouds in... I looked for tank dividers and couldnt find any so I devised my own...heheheh ( Talk about cheap)LOL This tank was given to me with a broken undergravel filter.....just the bottom tray part, so I took that out to throw away.....it sat in the garage for months......I measured it to the height of the tank, cut it, and wrapped quilt wadding around the edges to make a snug fit. Works perfectly. BUT the night I put it in ,part of the wadding must had slid upwards leaving a SMALL gap. I went to make a coffee and check the new arrivals and Holy Moley they were in the same compartment swimming quite happily together!!!! I watched them to see if the wadding was the problem..... then I saw one skinny up and squeeze through this tiny gap.... amazing! And people say fish dont have a brain worth much!!! I didnt see the gap, Frank didnt see the gap, but that male did! I rectified the problem. Is it uncommon for males Bettas to get along? ?? I was always underthe impression that they are fighters, it is their nature no matter what. They looked awesome swimming togther but I wouldnt chance keeping them like that. Anyway again thank you for your advice... I have 4 fish left in the TOD "tank of death" 4 in the sick tank.....3 looking quite lively with no shimmie and slight improvement....they are being treated with a little salt and tetracycline. I think Im just doomed with females. If they all die I will rip this tank down. Get rid of rocks and put Zolite in the bottom....... it looks awesome in the boys tank with the sunk Titanic ship (Im so original LOL ) I will keep plodding on Anyway again thank you for your advice. Oh another Q....how much conditioner do you ladies use per bucket of water? Told ya...grasping at straws here.
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Post by Bumblebee on Apr 17, 2006 11:31:10 GMT 10
It has around 1/4 of the fish It had when used as a successful grow-out tank, live plants and a double bulb reflector for the plants. all my grow-out tanks are carbon copys with same gravel, ammount of live plants and get the same water changes at the same time. The tank had 35 Baby BN's (bristlenose) but is now down to 2 as all the others have been sold. Filter is a 400 l/h in a 35 lt tank for some very heavy duty filtration, water returned through spray bars to there isnt much current to stress the fish, and for a lot of airation.
Only thing I can pin it on is the water supply as they add more chlorine at this time of year and we have to up the dosage of conditioner.
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Post by sassybees on Apr 17, 2006 11:41:09 GMT 10
ok Ive sat here trying to figure out the hardness GH.....I must be brain dead or something. The instructions are as follows 5ml tank water. add drops until it changes from red to green......that took 23 drops Thats all it says....It doesnt say what 23 drops is! Hard soft or whatever...All it says is if the water changes immeadiately then its likely to be soft water. It doesnt tell you what to do if its too soft or too hard...I have no idea what 23 represents. There is no chart or anything Its a Tetratest Laborett test kit. Can either of you wonderful ladies help me here? Oh just re read and it says If the test results show excessive hardness this can be reduced by adding softer water, rainwater, distilled water, or treated with reverse osmosis.. HUH? ?? When I make up water for the tanks I use a blue crystal powder called water condidtioner and wardlets tri start. I am guessing this blue condidtioner is a softner? Now to figure out the KH...be back soon
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Post by sammigold on Apr 17, 2006 11:58:43 GMT 10
First Sassybees yes B/n is bristlenose... With the fighters it has always been my thought that they fight and years ago I bought a betta as a female (but thought that it was awfully colourful) then I bought a male and lo and behold quickly found out that my "female" was a shortfinned male as he took a huge chunk out of the tail of the new boy within seconds of him being released into the tank..needless to say new boy went back to LFS.... In saying that though I have heard of people keeping more than one male (one guy has 4) living peacefully in a tank together...(a very large tank with lots of plants) so I suppose they just stick to their own territorys... who knows... I think bumblebee will know more about that as she seems to keep quite a few of these beautys...
with water conditioner - I use water ager drops and conditioning crystals and just follow the directions... I think different brands differ in the amounts.... HTH
Bumblebee - its sounds like you have very nice set ups... and I cant think of any other reasons other than what you say... Some discus owners "age" their water for at least 24hours as well as using conditioners etc in order to get around those types of issues...and use UV sterilisers to kill any nasties before they can get to the fish... I suppose it just depends on how much money we have to spend... I have had my discus for nearly a year now and I dont "age" my water and I dont have uv sterilisers and I am lucky to have healthy fat discus with touch wood no diseases.. :-)
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Post by Bumblebee on Apr 17, 2006 13:11:58 GMT 10
I was thinking it may be aluminium sulphate (a water treatment to remove sediment) they would be using it a lot in melbourne and tas over summer. Apparently it becomes toxic to fish when ph starts to lower.
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Post by sassybees on Apr 17, 2006 15:48:10 GMT 10
Bumblbee I have just read to Frank this whole thread....He said he spoke to the treaters (Quarantine) treaters they look after the 3000 tanks also... They have told him that All Corys and catfish carry the columnaris disease, they may not get it themselves often, but they are carriers...this may have some relavence to our problem. OK Ive just been out AGAIN to get a hardness test kit I can understand, I wanted the one you guys suggested....cant find it so I purchased the Aquasonic brand one).... I use that brand for all my other tests...... yet again it does not state what is hard and what isnt. Instructions are......5 ml tank water..... and the reagents...swirl etc.... then add other drops one by one and count them til the water changes from read to blue. At the blue point I had used 12 drops, they then say to multiply 12 x 20 to get the ppm.... that = 240. On the species requirement section it says water from 150ppm - 300ppm is ok for livebearers like gups. So I am assuming here that my water is middle range and OK If I want to make it a little harder do I add more blue crystal water condidtioner? ?? I will carry on with the antibiotics in the sick tank.... BTW Frank just had to put one out of its misery d**n!!! This is getting so frustrating I love my fish but feel like Im just killin them slowly one by one. Frank wants to tear the tank down and start over without stones....and use zolite instead, Im tending to agree with him. It does look good, corys love it but then I have to make the decsion in light of what the treaters have said about corys carrying the columnaris. Your thoughts ladies... BTW how cold has it gt in the last few days!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whats it like in Tassie?? Ive had the heater on and my electric blanket... yeah I know Im a cat when it comes to the cold
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